Curse

femaro · Mar 14, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

@ Antithesis

I'll consider that. I guess i make it dependent on the area the snarer worked very well in areas with large groups. ball snare dead before they even reach a squishy....and necro didnt make that much sense before the update...i guess now it should be awesome..
kk that's all from me tonight thx for all your help
goodnight!

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

With an RC in the build and having so many squishies i would no way change DA for SoP. There arent even enough conditions in PvE to ever require that skill.
Other than that i agree that you should revert back to your old Snare bar.
Not sure on the P/Me but the P/W looks exactly like mine

DA is still in the build. Stunning Strike is not needed. WoH is a better Monk elite than RC considering it's a non-conditional elite. I hurt the healing / condition removal on the N/Rt and prot on the N/Mo, so SoP is a good choice.

That one Paragon hero has the lion's share of Hex and Condition removal covered. femaro can focus Hex removal on the physicals who are really the only ones you need to worry about (Spiteful Spirit etc) and if they do get hit, it now gives a nice heal to boot. If additional Hex removal is need, drop RoF for Remove Hex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by femaro

@ Antithesis

I'll consider that. I guess i make it dependent on the area the snarer worked very well in areas with large groups. ball snare dead before they even reach a squishy....and necro didnt make that much sense before the update...i guess now it should be awesome..
kk that's all from me tonight thx for all your help
goodnight!

If you go WoH hybrid, keep the snarer...you'll have healing covered

You could consider Barbed Spear + Maiming Spear + Epidemic or Pin Down / Barbed Trap / Snare if you wanted to drop the E/Mo. Maiming Spear is somewhat conditional vs Water hexes, but food for thought...

I tested that P/W and it's weaker than it should be with atts in 4 lines. A Paragon is most effective when running at least 12 in Spear.

Here's the build i'd take -

A few things to keep in mind -

Spear of Lightning doesn't benefit from Order of Pain.
2 x Blazing Spear + Anthem of Flame + They're on Fire! = 33% damage reduction. ToF is also a good skill to keep up AR. Swap out vs Destroyers.
Mystic Healing is a party heal that hits 6 of 8 party members every few seconds.
Dark Fury powers the Paragons and Save Yourselves! on the Ranger.
Order of Pain + Ebon Battle Standard of Honor provide a huge damage buff to your Physicals.
Soothing Memories on the N/Rt adds some additional healing and energy management to the build.
Consider Rigor Mortis as an optional skill for the SS, replace Wild Throw on the Paragon.

I've tested all builds in HM. I'm sure if one of the big boys shows up the build can be further improved. You could probably take an Order of the Vampire / Channeler N/Rt for more offense instead of the Arcane Orders D/N. Or an OotV N/Mo for additional Prot.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 14, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I like your bars, only thing i would change is Remove Hex for Dismiss Conditon, and change the SoP paragon to SoR, other than that works very nice

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I agree, that'd take consistent advantage of the Paragon elite and give's the Monk a more traditional bar. The SoP + WoH bars would work well in condition / hex heavy areas, so he has a couple of options.

I like 2x Hex / no Condition removal because it allows the Monk to focus on the physicals for Hex removal, and healing / prot, reducing the mental load. With AI condition removal in the party, by the time you've selected the friendly to hit, the hero may have already cast and you've wasted your spell or time better spent on a different party member.

For the same reason, Light of Deliverance / Heaven's Delight / Divine Intervention could be run for an easier bar to manage, at the cost of spike mitigation. Realistically, AoE is the greatest threat to a party wipe and I don't have the fastest reactions as a Monk, so it'd probably be better for me. Then again, the Monk is the most likely target, so you'll be mashing WoH on yourself more often than not. Healer's Boon / Ethereal Light / Dwayna's Kiss is another option.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 15, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

If you are runed up correctly(which you should be for HM) you will very rarely get targeted as a monk.

And while i agree with you that AoE is the most likely reason you will explode in HM, no version of LoD we have seen to date could ever clean up the damage a HM AoE skill would have on the party. The only thing that might be close to saving the party in an AoE situation would be HB+HP spam and even then you will run out of energy quickly.

You have both Aegis and Order of Pain in the build so the chances of your party member being enchanted are going to be rougly 90% of the time. So even if you did miss to remove that condition of your team member you will still get a heal with Dismiss Condition.

Racthoh · Mar 15, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Dismiss Condition is a great way to make sure your monk has no energy to do anything. I'd rather my monk uses WoH for a 200+ point heal on someone who is dying than dismiss disease off a paragon at full health when WoH is on recharge.

Antithesis · Mar 15, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

If you are runed up correctly(which you should be for HM) you will very rarely get targeted as a monk.

I disagree. The rest of the build is pretty tough in comparison with the Monk so my guess is it's the priority target 8/10 times with the exception of the AI hitting the minions. I could be wrong, but i'd still be happy with that as it'd be easier for to heal myself than to exert mental energy targetting another team-mate.

With condition removal completely taken care of, i have less to think about. And that alone would make me a better Monk and a more valuable member of the team.

I agree - a bar full of party heals is not a good bar, but i'm not a good Monk either

WoH is obviously the preferred option for those more skilled than I, until I improve i've been using the Healer's Covenant build instead with Heaven's Delight as a party heal.

Raging Gainst · Mar 17, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

The build looks great except I recommend to run spear swipe on your P/Me.

Annihilates caster bosses.

Antithesis · Mar 17, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raging Gainst

The build looks great except I recommend to run spear swipe on your P/Me.

Annihilates caster bosses.

Never a bad idea to take Spear Swipe but the build already has BHA for Dazed. And the melee range isn't necessarily a good thing.

Super Igor · Mar 18, 2008, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Human-controlled BHA ownz Spear Swipe...

DarkSpirit · Mar 18, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

A note about distracting shot and dazed from guildwiki:

Quote:

The additional recharge does not trigger if the target is dazed. Similarly, preparations that cause interruption (like Choking Gas and Incendiary Arrows) will take effect before Distracting Shot. That is, the target will be interrupted by the preparation's effect, and as such, Distracting Shot did not interrupt the target per se, so the additional recharge will again not trigger.

If you use it solely for the interrupt you are fine but if the target is already dazed, the additional recharge would not occur according to this. If the target is dazed, you are better off with normal attack or volley.

Heroes suck when using Mark of Pain. Mark of Pain needs a good human eye to choose an appropriate target that doesn't die easily and stands in the middle of a mob. This is also why Sab took it out from the original build.

femaro · Mar 18, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Yes, but when dazed is off you still have an interrupt to block key skills. Also this arrow moves faster and without ark so if you are too slow on an occasion its your backup (mostly its because of the first reason i use it tho)

Antithesis · Mar 18, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If you use it solely for the interrupt you are fine but if the target is already dazed, the additional recharge would not occur according to this. If the target is dazed, you are better off with normal attack or volley.

The BHA is run by a human so it shouldn't be a problem. No Ranger worth a pinch is going to hit an already dazed target with D-Shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Heroes suck when using Mark of Pain. Mark of Pain needs a good human eye to choose an appropriate target that doesn't die easily and stands in the middle of a mob. This is also why Sab took it out from the original build.

The same can be said for most of the SS bar. A human will run it far better than a Hero, but there are so many good skills in the Curse line it's hard to leave an SS hero out. I often run a Blindbot instead of an SS to fill the anti-melee role, but it lacks punch in comparison and is vulnerable to enchantment stripping.

I agree with Mark of Pain - if it hits it can be devastating but It'll miss more often than not, so i'd consider it the optional slot on the bar. Rigor Mortis is a good skill to take in place of MoP given the amount of physical damage in the build.

DarkSpirit · Mar 19, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

The same can be said for most of the SS bar. A human will run it far better than a Hero, but there are so many good skills in the Curse line it's hard to leave an SS hero out. I often run a Blindbot instead of an SS to fill the anti-melee role, but it lacks punch in comparison and is vulnerable to enchantment stripping.

SS is more "forgivable" than MoP and there is really not much of a choice there where necro curse elites are concerned. MoP has a terrible recharge. If the hero casts it on a useless target, that's about it for that mob.

About the worst a hero can do with SS is to cast it on a backline caster, so it triggers when the monster wands and casts spells. That still hurts the backline alittle and SS has a much better recharge so the hero can easily recast it.

Quote:

I agree with Mark of Pain - if it hits it can be devastating but It'll miss more often than not, so i'd consider it the optional slot on the bar. Rigor Mortis is a good skill to take in place of MoP given the amount of physical damage in the build.

I have not used Rigor Mortis on a hero. It is nice for PvP but in PvE, it would be situational.

Antithesis · Mar 19, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I have not used Rigor Mortis on a hero. It is nice for PvP but in PvE, it would be situational.

No argument from me re: SS and MoP, they're both better on a human.

Rigor's useful in any build containing minions / physicals and it frees up a slot on the Paragon. Gotta love that Curse line